Greedy Betfair stick two fingers up at loyal customers… again

June 29, 2011 | Filed under: Betting Exchange,News,Sports News | Posted by:

Betfair, the betting exchange which recently went public has obviously been reading the book ‘How to lose friends and alienate people’. In what can only be described as yet another huge public relations disaster, the accountants at Betfair have decreed that if you’re a successful punter on the betting exchange, then you’re going to have to pay a new tax somewhere between 40% and 60%.

The original principle behind Betfair and all other betting exchange was that prices would be better than a traditional bookmaker by about 20%. In this new move, Betfair, have at a stroke, made calculating what you’re going to pay more difficult than buying a mobile phone contract whilst juggling five extra sharp ninja swords.

We spoke with one of their customers who today received a call from a Betfair rep…

Betfair Rep : ” Did you read the article in this morning’s racing post “

Customer : “No, why ? “

Betfair Rep : ” I’m calling to inform you that you are now in this group of people and you’ll now be paying the new rate of premium charge of 60%, there’s nothing I can do about it , that’s just how it is “

Customer : ” So… effectively you’re telling me to F*&k off “

Betfair Rep : “No, that’s not what I’m telling you, I’m just informing you of the new premium charges”

Ultimately, this will end up costing the customer huge amounts of money and, as of today, the customer is moving to Betdaq to do all his exchange trading. We popped a call into one of our guys who work in Betdaq, who stated that “The phone’s not stopped ringing, people are leaving Betfair en masse, we’re having to get extra people just to man the phones.. we’re very happy but very busy..”

Betfair’s customer support has always been lacking, but the corporate disregard for the class of customers who made Betfair what it is today is simply shocking which is a shame, Betfair used to be the community and we all know what happens to companies that don’t pay attention to the customer…. they move elsewhere because customers are fickle beasts.

 

16 Responses to Greedy Betfair stick two fingers up at loyal customers… again

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    Ian
    June 29, 2011 at 6:12 pm

  2. not sure what your ‘extensive experience’ is worth ian, think you need to read up on your current affairs.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    erm
    June 29, 2011 at 6:23 pm

  3. About 40k a year, thanks for your concern.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 2

    Ian
    June 29, 2011 at 6:30 pm

  4. Have you been reading the betfair forum..? Have you seen the notices and revised T&C. Have you seen the endless posts from loyal Betfair users angry about the changes. Have you spoken to professional traders…

    I use both sites and frankly your denial is amusing.. do you work for betfair..? Or live under a rock.

    The original PC was a slap in the face for punters even though BF said it would only affect a small number.. it didn’t. This new levy will only affect a small number… it won’t. People are legitimately upset. The article is solid although it should have linked to betfairs revised conditions to provide balance. Doc.. can you am end the

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    jimmy2shoes
    June 29, 2011 at 6:37 pm

  6. it affects people who are taking money out of the exchange about 500 -1000 people but doctor to be honest your taking rubbish im sorry to say betdaq will never be in the same world as betfair thats what i think

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    gotanyos
    June 29, 2011 at 7:45 pm

  7. I agree with you about Betdaq not being in the same league , but I’m surprised that this has even been brought up in the topic as this was an article about how Betfair are asking certain users to pay up to 60% in commission, this announcement, coming after posting year end results announcing record profits….. Betdaq have nothing to do with the price of fish, except that they are now busier than they were due to this announcement.

    Apologies for not responding earlier but since we put up the article about Full Tilt the load from the Americans has been knocking over our server – time for a bigger one.

    As for payment, I wish.., we only make money on our ads and even then only when someone subscribes to 32red,ladbrokes,betdaq,paddypower or buys a phone from 3 .. The Social Gambler team have accounts with both exchanges and many fixed odds firms, but we do like the purple one, if only for the soft Irish voices of the girls in customer service..

    D.O.C.

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    The Doctor
    June 29, 2011 at 11:13 pm

  8. For the record, to pay the premium tax, all the following must be true:

    1. Your lifetime net profits exceed £250,000
    2. Your lifetime commission generated less than 40% of lifetime gross profits
    3. You have bet in more than 1,000 markets

    This is only going to affect a very small number of players, basically only extremely high volume successful traders. People who take a position (‘punters’ as they are sometimes known) will find it nearly impossible to get a profit:commission ratio of 2.5. I am a modestly successful punter (I won about £10k on betfair in the last 12 months taking positions) and my ratio is nothing like that high. I’m not saying there aren’t far better punters out there than me, but I imagine very few will get figures that good.

    So that basically leaves traders, and even then only very good traders as they will have to not only maintain that high profit ratio, but will also need to make a quarter of a million pound before they even hit the radar!

    So now I’ve actually given you the numbers, why do I consider this article a shambles?

    1. Completely unprofessionally written and sourced. You can’t try to pass something off as news when the only research you have done is a subjectively recounted recollection of a phone conversation from one customer and maybe a quick browse of the forums.

    2. “Betfair’s customer support has always been lacking,” It has? What do you mean by lacking? Compared to whom? This is just another off-the-cuff generalisation with no rationalisation behind it. In the dozens (literally) of online gambling sites I have dealt with, Betfair have been one of the most professional. Every email I have ever sent their support staff have been answered within a few hours, and every compaint I have ever made (some admittedly legitimate ones due to **** ups their end) hve been resolved to my satisfaction and sometimes surpassing my expectations. As I said, PokerStars is the only other company that has even come close in that regard.

    3. “Betfair have decreed that if you’re a successful punter on the betting exchange, then you’re going to have to pay a new tax.” No they haven’t. As described above, ‘punters’ are extremely unlikely to ever pay the tax and even traders you’re only talking a small subset. Most winning bettors will never pay this new tax.

    In short, I don’t like this tax much, it does smack of greed (although there are probably other motivations too). But there is really no excuse for an article with this much subjective ranting, poor sources, misleading generalisations and flat-out incorrect statements.

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    Ian
    June 30, 2011 at 12:48 pm

  9. This could be a turning point for Betfair. Either they’ll get rich from it, or their monopoly will be forever shaken. I’m hoping for the latter – 60% is beyond farcical.

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    Socialite
    June 30, 2011 at 12:52 pm

  10. Jeez… It’s higher taxes than in Sweden!! Not bad.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    Swede
    June 30, 2011 at 3:01 pm

  11. “unprofessionally sourced”??? this site is not a news organization, to my knowledge they never source anything. i’ve been coming to this site for about 2 months now and i like it. they provide interesting information and the picks have been quite good. i don’t know if these guys are actually pros but i wouldn’t doubt it based on the quality of the picks and analysis. definitely not a news organization, if you’re looking for sourced articles you’ve come to the wrong place

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    tobias
    June 30, 2011 at 3:09 pm

  12. ***** ian. Viva la Mexico

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    lance
    June 30, 2011 at 6:17 pm

  13. Tobias – Fair enough. I’ve never been to this site before, but I was linked to it as a story and I felt it was presented as such. If this is just a random blog for venting or whatever then cool I guess.

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    Ian
    June 30, 2011 at 7:34 pm

  14. Criminal charge i have been with them since 2000 and am on 30% i am not a track or a courtside player just bet on the dogs and football and some horses.
    but because i have won over 250,000 and only paid them 30% of that im commission thats not enough.i know a few others that bet in a similar way and are around the 25-35% mark
    and they cant bet on the site anymore.
    If they wanted to go after the real cheats then this will fail but they fully understand this.
    This charrge is a charter for, cheats and losers.
    And also kills the dream of anybody with aspirations of winning big on betfair.

    Like or Dislike: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0

    jon
    June 30, 2011 at 9:57 pm

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  16. Ian, the premium charge mark I was actually introduced in 2008, so slightly more than a year. My first payment was in October 2008, so it was probably around then that it was introduced.

    I also think it is perfectly reasonable to say that Betfair’s customer relations at times is shambolic. You only need to have tried to use the site in March of this year to realise how inept they can be.

    I’m amazed that you get people defending this latest hike in charges. Despite the Betfair propaganda it’s perfectly possible to fall into paying the charge (mark I) without making vast sums, and then what do have to look forward to? Your continuing success eventually means you will have 40-60% taken. And then who’s to say what will have happen with charge mark III and beyond?

    Betfair is an exchange (supposedly!). People win and people lose – that’s what happens on an exchange. I regularly read tosh like: ‘Winners are draining Betfair’s resources’ or ‘Some people are too successful and are taking money from Betfair’. As far as I was aware the successful people are making money from the less successful people – that’s what happens on an exchange. And the exchange is still growing (at the moment).

    The grand vision of Betfair was to level the playing field for the average punter and give people the opportunity to trade and lay sports in ways they hadn’t been able to before. Now that’s not enough for the plc, their plunging share price and massive P/E, so they need to target those people who have put a lot of money into the markets and have made a lot of money for Betfair through their commission. Target and penalise the people who are using the site the way it was supposed to be used. Drive them out and attempt to replace them and become just another bookie. It all seems a bit desperate.

    The main problem I see is that the charge goes against the very ethos of the company which was supposed to be ‘winners welcome’ (which was obviously dropped years ago). I don’t think they realise how damaging this is going to be for them. The original ethos may be fine for a private company, but not for a plc that’s constantly looking to expand. It’s hard for a company to gain a reputation, but pretty easy for them to lose it. By driving out some of the people who have provided liquidity into the markets over the last ten years their reputation will be tarnished. Trying to replace those people with inferior prices and offering an inferior product will tarnish their reputation still more.

    With the introduction of the latest charge they’ve:

    1. Managed to increase the complexity of their already stupidly complex charging structure
    2. Given anyone paying any of their extra charges an even greater reason to find ways to avoid paying them (no one in their right mind is going to pay 40-60%)
    3. Further damaged customer relations and their reputation.

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    dave
    July 6, 2011 at 10:45 am